70: Using a Podcast to Replace Professional Networking with John Corcoran
"In many ways, podcasting completely replaced networking for me."
John Corcoran is an attorney, writer, and a father, and a former Clinton White House Writer and Speechwriter to the Governor of California.
Throughout his career, he has worked in Hollywood, the heart of Silicon Valley, and owned his own boutique law firm in the San Francisco Bay Area working with small business owners and entrepreneurs.
He is the creator of Smart Business Revolution and the Smart Business Revolution podcast. He’s the cofounder with Dr. Jeremy Weisz, of Rise25, LLC, an education and training company which holds in-person and virtual trainings for ecommerce entrepreneurs and professional services business owners.
In this episode, John shares how he went from lawyer to podcaster, why he attributes pretty much everything in his business to his podcast, why he feels you should start a podcast if you don’t like traditional networking, how podcasting will save you time and connect you with a higher caliber of people than traditional networking, how he follows up with his guests to maximize the connection, why you need to be discriminating in who you invite as a guest on your podcast, and more!
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John Corcoran’s Podcast | Smart Business Revolution
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Transcript
Welcome to podcasting for coaches. I'm Britany Felix and I'm a podcast launch consultant who specializes in helping coaches and consultants utilize the power of podcasting as a way to build brand awareness and generate new leads for their business. I realize not every new coach or consultant can afford to hire someone to help launch their show. So I created this podcast as a way to guide you through the process of launching and utilizing your very own podcast to help you grow your business and reach a new audience of adoring followers and potential clients. If you're ready to get your voice and podcast out into the world, head over to podcasting for coaches.com to learn more. JOHN Corcoran is an attorney, writer, father and former Clinton White House writer and speechwriter to the governor of California. Throughout his career, he has worked in Hollywood, the heart of Silicon Valley and owned his own boutique law firm in the San Francisco Bay Area working with small business owners and entrepreneurs. He is the creator of smart business Revolution and the smart business revolution podcast. He's the co founder with Dr. Jeremy Weiss of rise 25 LLC, an education and training company which holds in person and virtual trainings for ecommerce entrepreneurs and professional service business owners. He's been profiled in Forbes inc.com, Harvard Business Review, and in the books entrepreneurial you and stand out by Dorie Clark, the connectors advantage seven mindsets to grow your influence and impact by Michel Tillis Letterman. And the successful mistake by Matthew Turner. His writing has appeared in Forbes entrepreneur, Huffington Post Art of Manliness life hacker Business Insider get rich slowly, and numerous other publications, blogs and websites. So that's John's formal bio. My bio for john is that he and I have worked together on his podcast for Oh, gosh, was about two years, I think, somewhere in that range.
01:57
Right? We're totally out of time for the show, because my bio was too long.
02:02
Nope, totally. Okay, I can cut it down. So john, thank you so much for being on the show. And I am really excited to talk with you today, because I have worked with you for a long time. But I haven't necessarily gotten any information on how the podcast has actually worked for your business and help. So thank you again for being here. Yeah, my
02:21
pleasure. Happy to do it.
02:22
So why don't you give us a little bit of introduction, your show has been around for a long time you have stuck with it, you did not pod fade. So kudos for that. And
02:32
there have been some years there were a little bit like a desert.
02:37
So why don't you just talk to us about what made you decide to start a podcast in the first place and what that journey has been like up until now? Sure. So
02:44
I was a full time practicing lawyer made my living from that. But I also knew that that wasn't a great business model. Because you're trading hours for dollars. And being a lawyer, you tend to fight people, which wasn't really my nature. And so I looked for something else to start that would kind of give back and a bigger impact. And I always liked writing. So I started a blog, but then it's hard to get that off the ground and get exposure and other people doing podcasts. So I started a podcast, this was 2012. And actually, even before that, I started interviewing people and recording it. And I just like, uploaded it to my website to WordPress, I had no hosting or anything like that. But it It had a great impact in the sense that it helped me solidify a relationship with the person I was interviewing. And so it was kind of hooked. And I just kept on doing it ever since. And yeah, before you and I worked together. There were some times when I published like six or seven episodes in a year, which is embarrassing. I was still doing the interviews, but he's the new great job of getting them out the door. Right. So fortunately, we've been able to use thankfully he has been I've done a good job of that. But what have I gotten out of it everything. I mean, I my business partner currently with Jeremy, you know, wouldn't come out if it weren't for podcasting, more clients than I can possibly even remember referral partners, strategic partnerships. I've done over 400 live webinars, many, if not most of them came originally from someone I connected with and then invited onto the podcast, I just got back from two conferences that I went to in LA in Los Angeles, and sorry, in San Diego, in Las Vegas and met a bunch of cool people there. And it's a great way to follow up with people that you meet at a live event. So it's tremendous. I'm a huge advocate gung ho on anyone, I think everyone should have a podcast.
04:20
Well, and one thing that I love about what you do is in your podcast, a reoccurring topic is networking and relationship building. And I think a podcast is a fantastic way to do that. And that doesn't get talked about enough. A lot of people think it's like, oh, it's going to bring in more leads, and it'll grow my audience, but they don't really realize just how powerful it can be for connecting with others. I know you said Jeremy Weiss came to you from that. So do you mind just talking about it from that perspective and what that's been like?
04:47
Oh, it absolutely is. I mean, first of all, everyone hates that word. They you know, they hate networking, like they hate sales, but they also recognize that it's kind of important. So you know, people say like, well I don't like networking, but I like it. Acting with people well, if that's true, then you should start a podcast because it allows you to only connect with the people that you determine who you want to connect with. And you want to deepen a relationship with because it's up to you to decide who comes on the show. And so in many ways, actually, a podcast completely replaces having to go to these boring, big cattle call networking events, where there's hundreds or dozens of people, and you're not sure who to talk to, and you're away from family, and you have to travel, you know, to conferences or things like that. This allows you to do it from your home, or your home office or your office, wherever we've got a quiet spot, and a microphone, and a laptop computer. And that's all you really need. Yet, it delivers tremendous value to people, it will save you time, because it allows you to connect with higher and higher caliber people, people who, you know, if you reach out to them and said, let's do a 15 minute get to know you call, they're gonna make time for that. But though, they'll make time for a podcast, you know, just recently, I had someone on who was the co founder of business that at its peak was doing 52 billion with a B dollars a year in revenue. Wow. And all kinds of thought leaders and authors and speakers and business founders and you name it, I've been able to connect with and have a conversation with through the mechanism of the podcast. So it's, it's wonderful.
06:17
And what is your process been like for really optimizing these connections and making sure that you're, you know, taking the full value out of them? As far as I'm assuming they're not just on your podcast? And then you never talk to them again. Right. So what does that look like for you?
06:31
Yeah, so it varies, I will one, I don't believe in kind of like just putting people in some kind of automated marketing funnel after you've had them on your podcast. If you do that, especially with higher caliber people, they're going to really be turned off by that I've had people do that for me, where I've been a guest on their podcast, and then they send me a series of automated messages. And it's like, just totally, you know, rubs you the wrong way. Yeah. But what I do try and do is I try and continue to maintain that relationship, try and continue to deliver additional value to them. And I look for ways in which we can collaborate in some fashion, you know, and it might be referring business their way might be they refer business to us, it might be that we meet up at some event or conference or something like that. And then increasingly, what we've done with our businesses, we've tried to have gatherings from time to time throughout the year, where we can invite people who've been a guest on our podcast, and other people as well, and clients and things like that. It's a more scalable way of maintaining those relationships. And even if you invite someone who's a past guest on your podcast to come to one of these events, and they can't make it, it's a touch point, and you're Top of Mind with them again, and they appreciate and you've given them something just in inviting them to come back to that. So, you know, we try and do those sorts of things. You know, I've had 200 plus episodes, I've interviewed a couple 100 people more, not just for the podcast, but for other purposes. Also, there's no way you can be like meeting up with all those people for dinner or coffee or something like that a lot of them are still really busy people and they're not going to meet me for coffee, or or dinner. But if I invite them to something where other people going to be there, you know, you have the chance of connecting face to face. And then you deepen that relationship further. So because some of the strongest relationships I have, including my business partnership, and many other really good friends initially came from a podcast, and then we met up in person, and then the sky's the limit, you know, if you really connect with someone, there's other ways that you can find to work together or to continue to be in each other's lives. Yeah. And
08:30
I, you've mentioned Jeremy a couple of times, and I want to kind of talk about that. So your current business partner, you said came to you as a result of podcasting. And I want to talk about that relationship a little bit and how that developed. And what you guys are doing now? Because if I remember correctly, I mean, Jeremy had a chiropractic office, right. And you had a law firm, like two totally different worlds. How did that happen?
08:51
Yeah, totally different worlds. Coincidentally, we both started podcasts around the same time. He also was the producer for many years for the mixergy podcast, which was one of the early leading business podcasts. And I connected with Andrew Warner as the host of that, and then connected me with Jeremy and we got in touch that way. And then one day, five years ago, he was coming out to a conference in San Francisco. We knew each other a little bit. And he reached out to me and said, hey, what if we put together a little event about a dozen people kind of a little mastermind of other business founders on the day before this conference starts, just as something fun to do. And he was very compelling. Usually I said no to people like that. But for whatever reason, he was compelling convinced me to do it. And I did it. And I really enjoyed it. And then we just kind of kept on going from there. So you know, that's an example of how a podcast can turn into a business partnership.
09:38
Right? And so how would you your separate podcast work together to help funnel people into rise? 25, which is your business together?
09:48
Right? It's not like they are synchronized in some way, although we will, you know, we think about like, since we are business partners, and we work in a business together. Usually if someone comes as a guest on his show, or my show We won't have them on the other show, unless sometimes it happens much later or something like, right. But ultimately, he and I are both doing one episode a week. So that's 104 episodes or so give or take a year, sorry, 140 individuals a year that you are delivering value to you're connecting with, you're building a deeper relationship with you're building reciprocity with because they want to repay the favor after you've delivered value to them, giving them exposure and publicity. And so we think about it in that way. We're always thinking about, you know, who can we have on as a guest, and you can also increase the number of episodes, so you can do that as well.
10:37
So are you finding that in terms of additional revenue for your business or additional clients? Is it more that your guests end up becoming clients or your listeners?
10:47
I'd say it's both I mean, we've certainly had listeners who become clients, but it's more guests. And it's not even that the guest becomes a client, they might become referral partner, and they might refer someone else, you know, who's a good fit for us. It's just a way of kind of deepening that relationship. And yeah, there certainly have been some people who've been listeners who become clients or have attended our events or something like that, you know, or you connect with someone, and then they start listening to the podcast, you know, like you meet someone at a conference, they find out, you're a podcaster. You know, next thing I know, I'm telling them to pull out their phone. I'm always curious what other shows they listen to? And I'm telling them, okay, hit that subscribe button. One at a time, right? Yeah. But what's really cool about that is, you can see the trajectory, it goes from like, you meet someone, whether it's online or in person, and then they find out about the podcast have never having heard about it before. And then on their own time, not on your time on their own time. They're consuming that in their earbuds, and they're getting to know you in a much deeper way. It happens all the time that then I talk to them later. And they feel like they know you a lot better because of having listened to your podcast, it works equally as being a guest and other podcast as well. In fact, I say to people, if they want to be a guest on other podcasts, the best way to do it is to start your own podcast. Because then you can invite other podcasters on do your show. And you can go in and be on their show as well, right? You can get listeners, certainly you can get clients who come from the listening base. But I encourage most people to think of that as like an ancillary benefit. And to think about it as a relationship builder. First, in many ways, podcasting completely replaced networking for me, because I rarely go to big networking events, I go to conferences, but I rarely go to big networking events. Because my podcast is by networking now, right? It's a much more effective means of networking, because it's much more targeted, you can get much higher caliber people, people who wouldn't be caught dead at a 500 person networking event, right? So it's higher caliber people. It's more targeted, you don't have to travel for it. And it exists forever. It creates content marketing. And it's also for you, it frankly, is personal and professional development, because I feel like I have grown tremendously from all the smart people who I've been able to pick their brain, you know, really smart people have written books, speak on stage, that sort of thing and been able to talk to them, and absorb all that knowledge.
13:13
Yeah, and I think that's another thing that podcasters don't always think about is, as a podcast listener, we consume podcasts so that we can oftentimes learn new things. And when you're the host, it's even deeper, because you have the ability to ask questions back, anything that you want clarified, or to follow up on. So as the host, we're sitting here absorbing this information as well, and learning and expanding our minds and our knowledge base and our skill sets also.
13:37
Absolutely. So, so, so true. Yeah, you You definitely learn a lot from just talking to them about it.
13:44
Yeah. So to kind of wrap up here, I have a couple of questions to finish off. One is for the coach or consultant right now, who is out there considering starting a podcast for their business. They're established, they've got a good business, but they want to either create more connections, create more opportunities for their business, maybe bring in more leads, anything that you know, any of the 1000s of things podcasting and help with, what advice would you have for them to kind of get them started in the right direction to set up their show for success from the start?
14:16
There's so many different things. One, I think people have a lot of objections in their head. So I think they need to overcome those objections to the big ones are one that it's time consuming, and two, that they don't understand everything that's involved in going into creating a podcast, I just want to dress those things. First, I think it's much less time consuming to have a podcast because you get access to higher and higher caliber people. And because you can in many different ways you can repurpose the content, and you're delivering value to people who then want to repay the favor. And then also the technical aspects. I don't recommend you go out there and try and figure out how to format an RSS feed, stick to what you're really good at and outsource all the rest. You shouldn't be handling that stuff. You should be Focusing on the relationship element and using the podcast for that particular purpose. So those two objections I think, are really critically important. And then beyond that, the other really important piece, I would say, is get very deliberate and intentional about who you're going to interview on your show. We haven't talked about non interview types of shows, which I think are fine. But a lot of times non interview types of shows tend to go 30 or 40 episodes, and then people give up because they just like, get discouraged, or something like that. And you also are really missing out on the relationship aspect. So I do recommend having mostly interviews, or at least, a mix of interviews and non interview shows. But when it comes to interviewing people, I say, Be really discriminating, don't get drunk, like some people do when they start a podcast, and you're like, I can interview this person, and this person and this person, this alien, they go on the interview all these different people, which really are, there's no clear connection or relationship to the business that they have. So get really clear on Okay, who's the ideal client or customer for me, or who is the ideal referral partner for me, or who's the ideal strategic partner for me, and then go after that type of person and be really disciplined about it, especially when the PR inquiries start coming in, and people start pitching you a bunch of different podcast guests, who really may not be a good fit for you. Don't get distracted by that. follow through on your plan and go in and read those people that are most important for you. Awesome. Yeah, you
16:19
definitely have to get comfortable with saying no to the guest if you really want to, you know, if you really value your show and value your audience and what you're doing with the time that you're putting into it, for sure. Yep. So final question. If you could go back and do your entire podcast journey over again, I may know the answer to this question. Is there anything that you would do differently?
16:38
Oh, man, I'm, I'm interested to know what you think my answer. That's, I'm kind of curious. But if you can tell me afterwards, you'd be like, yep, that was it. That was the thing. But um, what I would say is I wish that I had this is the honest answer, offloaded more of it to a dependent person like Brittany, or like someone else, from the get go, because that's not the highest and best use of your time. For anyone, any coach or consultant out there who's who's considering doing a podcast, the highest and best use of your time is not learning a new skill set that you're gonna get overwhelmed by highest and best use of your time, is, you know, using the show as leverage to connect with people that you would never have access to otherwise, and also deliver value to your existing clients, deliver value to past clients, potential clients, referral partners, strategic partners, and really, as a networking tool, in many ways, I would say that probably is what I would recommend the most. And also starting earlier, I wish I'd started probably another three or four years earlier than I did. I mean, I'm looking back now I started, you know, 2012. Right. It was quite a while ago now. But I still wish I'd started earlier. I still wish I started earlier. So
17:50
yeah, okay, well, neither one of those actually is the one I was thinking Oh, really? Yeah. You're on it. So what I was, like, that's exactly
17:57
what I you
17:59
know, because I kind of want to bring up this point, because we're going through it right now. Have you having a self hosted RSS feed? On your own website? Oh, yeah. Do you want to?
18:11
Yes. So right. Yeah, right now I've renewed I've been talking about this site. So this is kind of a funny time to be recording this right now, for the first time. Like, I got an email like yesterday from Apple just completely took down my podcasts. That's embarrassing. Like no warning, nothing. No, I mean, it's unbelievable. I know, other businesses have experienced this sort of thing. So literally, it's down right now, before this, we were trying to figure out Britany was being so graceful and helping get to the bottom of it. And you've got such deep knowledge in this area, fortunately. So you're like my Savior. So yes, I absolutely would not make that mistake. You know, you don't know what you don't know. Right? You know, I mean, and unfortunately, it's a situation where I'm kind of stuck with it. We've we've talked about it before. So
18:54
to clarify, for those who don't understand, john, right now, his RSS feed when it was set up in the very beginning, was created via his own website. So his show is at least the feed is self hosted. So he is using a platform like Lipson, which you guys have heard me talk about a ton of times on here, for his actual audio files to keep those office sites so they don't slow it down. But his actual RSS feed comes from his own website. And that has created a number of issues over the past. I feel like it's, it's been mostly in the past six months or so we've really kind of wanted to take advantage of things and we couldn't, yeah, so you will see a lot of podcasts, consultants and service writers about the benefits of self hosting your RSS feed so that you own it, but then you also deal with things like Apple taking down your show, because something in the feed is not quite right. And if you don't know how to code, or you don't know how to fix that issue, you're kind of stuck in this situation that Johnson right now we're scrambling to figure out what the heck's going on because of course, Apple is not helping. Yeah, so please, don't self Host. Yeah, this
19:57
kind of goes to the other point that I made, which was Don't try and do this stuff yourself, right? You should have someone else a professional, who's gonna handle, you know, help you with those pieces, rather than trying to do it yourself. You know, your time is better spent other ways, you know, right? Absolutely.
20:15
Well, at the time of this recording, the show was down, but hopefully by the time is released, it will be up and up and running again. And you guys can subscribe to it because it is amazing. If not, then you're gonna be like,
20:24
I'd like to introduce my guest, former podcaster john Corcoran.
20:28
JOHN used to have a show, right? It went for a really long time until everything got messed up. Exactly right. No, we'll get it back. JOHN, thank you so much for being on the show. This was a blast.
20:37
Thank you, Brittany.
20:41
And that wraps up my interview with john Corcoran. I do want to follow up that interview and state that at the time we recorded this, john and i were working together, we are no longer working together. Don't worry, everything ended on great terms. But I did want to make sure that I mentioned that. And I do also want to follow up on what john was saying about hiring someone to help you from the start so that you're not worrying about how to set up your RSS feed properly so that you don't make the mistake of self hosting if you're not really in a position to do so. And then also hiring some help for the ongoing editing portion rather than you learning editing skills and all of those things. Of course, I do offer both of those services I am sometimes depending on when you're listening to this episode completely booked up with editing clients. But do still feel free to reach out you can do that either via email Britany at podcasting for coaches calm and that is Britany bR it a ny I do have a contact form on my website. And then of course, I have the pages on my website that break down my launch consultation packages in my editing services. And both of those have ways to schedule a call with me. And then lastly, of course there will be links to everything mentioned in this episode today in the show notes on my website and you can find those by going to podcasting for coaches. com, click on the podcast tab in the main menu and go to episode number 70. That is seven zero. Thank you so much for listening. And I do want to invite you to come back next week where I am going to explain all the things that podcasters do wrong. Have a fantastic day. And that wraps up another episode of podcasting for coaches. If you'd like to connect with me further, you can do so on Instagram at podcasting for coaches. If you know it's time to finally get serious about starting your podcast, go to podcasting for coaches.com and click on the work with me tab in the main menu to learn more about my one on one launch consultation packages or my self paced online course. And I look forward to seeing the podcasts that you create and put out into the world.